Comments for TouchPoint http://www.davidlwatson.org David Watson's Blog Sat, 21 Jan 2012 05:22:14 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 Comment on Church Planting Essentials – Make Disciples, Not Converts by Lisa http://www.davidlwatson.org/2008/01/14/church-planting-essentials-make-disciples-not-converts/comment-page-1/#comment-4731 Lisa Sat, 21 Jan 2012 05:22:14 +0000 http://www.davidlwatson.org/?p=79#comment-4731 I needed this! Thank you, David. I needed this! Thank you, David.

]]> Comment on Animism, America, Religion and Politics by Bob Sherbondy http://www.davidlwatson.org/2011/11/01/animism-america-religion-and-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-4721 Bob Sherbondy Fri, 23 Dec 2011 18:29:03 +0000 http://www.davidlwatson.org/?p=753#comment-4721 I believe that the best perspective on this matter is the principle of faithful stewardship that operates from the fact that God owes everything and he is the great creator. So neither the application of an Animistic Worldview or that of a Creative Worldview will satisfy God's standards for the human care and use of his created resources. Any view of the world's resources that claims that human beings have any ownership rights or creative rights over anything that is in this world is materialistic idolatry, which God strongly rejects. I believe that the best perspective on this matter is the principle of faithful stewardship that operates from the fact that God owes everything and he is the great creator. So neither the application of an Animistic Worldview or that of a Creative Worldview will satisfy God's standards for the human care and use of his created resources. Any view of the world's resources that claims that human beings have any ownership rights or creative rights over anything that is in this world is materialistic idolatry, which God strongly rejects.

]]> Comment on Animism, America, Religion and Politics by Jay http://www.davidlwatson.org/2011/11/01/animism-america-religion-and-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-4711 Jay Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:50:15 +0000 http://www.davidlwatson.org/?p=753#comment-4711 Great article! As to the belief in a "fixed amount of goods," most of the world lives with the belief in limited goods. Many North Americans, from a "go west young man," mentality, work off of a new frontiers to conquer paradigm, and often find it hard to understand another point of reference. I believe that earth is not totally a closed system; God enters in and adds his blessings, but for the most part there is a limited amount of land, water and other resources. Just as it is a rare wind that blesses nobody, it is a rare blessing that hurts noody. Most of the eastern Mediteranean world was and remains in a limited goods paradigm. Reading the Bible from that position changes some of the teachings. Community becomes much more important. Sharing and voluntary rationing are a way of life. The man who built bigger barns was not a good manager of his resources! When the goods are limited for us, we don't cope well and can get violently greedy; check out the videos on Black Friday shopping. Great article!
As to the belief in a "fixed amount of goods," most of the world lives with the belief in limited goods. Many North Americans, from a "go west young man," mentality, work off of a new frontiers to conquer paradigm, and often find it hard to understand another point of reference. I believe that earth is not totally a closed system; God enters in and adds his blessings, but for the most part there is a limited amount of land, water and other resources. Just as it is a rare wind that blesses nobody, it is a rare blessing that hurts noody.
Most of the eastern Mediteranean world was and remains in a limited goods paradigm. Reading the Bible from that position changes some of the teachings. Community becomes much more important. Sharing and voluntary rationing are a way of life. The man who built bigger barns was not a good manager of his resources! When the goods are limited for us, we don't cope well and can get violently greedy; check out the videos on Black Friday shopping.

]]> Comment on Animism, America, Religion and Politics by Jim http://www.davidlwatson.org/2011/11/01/animism-america-religion-and-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-4710 Jim Tue, 15 Nov 2011 03:41:13 +0000 http://www.davidlwatson.org/?p=753#comment-4710 There is an interesting dichotomy in Western society regarding Animism. On the intellectual level, anyone who would overtly subscribe to animism (or anything acknowledging the reality of spiritual power or a spiritual world) is marginalized by the intellectual elite -- not through rational argument but through sarcasm and derision. Classic Greek sophistry at work. But on the "lived life" level, we are increasingly attracted to and influenced by Animism. We are among the most "spiritual" cultures in the world, just no longer biblical in our spiritual roots. Note the fascination with the occult, the Twilight phenomena, our preoccupation with the Walking Dead, etc. We intuitively know there is a spiritual world that our intellectual facade of materialism can't explain, so we are more and more characterized by the split level world that Francis Schaefer described many years ago. But since as Marx says the point of philosophy is really to change our world, it would be interesting to hear how you propose that we can strategically engage this trend as Christians. There is an interesting dichotomy in Western society regarding Animism. On the intellectual level, anyone who would overtly subscribe to animism (or anything acknowledging the reality of spiritual power or a spiritual world) is marginalized by the intellectual elite — not through rational argument but through sarcasm and derision. Classic Greek sophistry at work. But on the "lived life" level, we are increasingly attracted to and influenced by Animism. We are among the most "spiritual" cultures in the world, just no longer biblical in our spiritual roots. Note the fascination with the occult, the Twilight phenomena, our preoccupation with the Walking Dead, etc. We intuitively know there is a spiritual world that our intellectual facade of materialism can't explain, so we are more and more characterized by the split level world that Francis Schaefer described many years ago. But since as Marx says the point of philosophy is really to change our world, it would be interesting to hear how you propose that we can strategically engage this trend as Christians.

]]> Comment on Animism, America, Religion and Politics by Tres http://www.davidlwatson.org/2011/11/01/animism-america-religion-and-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-4708 Tres Mon, 07 Nov 2011 02:22:58 +0000 http://www.davidlwatson.org/?p=753#comment-4708 Excellent point with the example of the state of higher education in our county. National Inflation Association has done extensive research in their latest video offering called "College Conspiracy" found at <a href="http://inflation.us/videos.html" rel="nofollow">http://inflation.us/videos.html</a> Great post and reply, Blessings Brother. Excellent point with the example of the state of higher education in our county. National Inflation Association has done extensive research in their latest video offering called "College Conspiracy" found at http://inflation.us/videos.html
Great post and reply,
Blessings Brother.

]]> Comment on Animism, America, Religion and Politics by David_Watson http://www.davidlwatson.org/2011/11/01/animism-america-religion-and-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-4707 David_Watson Sun, 06 Nov 2011 16:06:00 +0000 http://www.davidlwatson.org/?p=753#comment-4707 The post certainly reflects my religious and political views. However, there is a significant difference between the theocracy of the OT and socialism - i.e. God. Your argument that infrastructure is socialistic is way off. Socialism is the redistribution of wealth, often against one's will and with no benefit to the person whose wealth is taken. Supporting infrastructure is an integral part of government of all stripes and is about the fair payment for goods and services that make community work. Education and healthcare are certainly a part of this equation if minimum standards for everyone are established and provided, but allows for those who have the means to strive for more (if they want). You equate taxation with socialism. This can be true in some systems, but certainly not all. Monarchies tax. Dictatorships tax. Republics tax. Democracies tax. Interestingly enough, extreme socialistic systems don't tax because the government owns everything and keeps the profit for themselves while forcing the people to live at often substandard levels of housing, income, healthcare, infrastructure, and quality of life. The real issue here is about doing what's right in God's sight for those who cannot take care of themselves. One of the functions of government should be to protect the weak members of society. This is quite different than coddling the lazy members of society or saying that every member of society should be paid the same regardless of capacity, training, excellence and hard work. There are differing values for the way in which individuals support society. Not everyone has the capacity or is willing to work hard enough to become a physician, scientist, engineer, business owner and etc. In a society that has the Creator God as a significant part of it's worldview, everyone should be given the opportunity to develop to his or her capacity. This is for the good of the society. This is not socialism, which tends to bring everything to a common minimum. It seems to me that most socialistic systems want to make sure everyone reaches the same level of incompetence so that the elite in charge can keep what they have. The socialistic worldview is based on the view that there is limited stuff that must be kept and protected, and just enough is given out to keep people happy while the elite can enjoy their wealth of stuff. OT law allowed for those with capacity to excel and rise up in society. But it also recognized that power would supplant ability, so every fifty years the table was reset (Year of Jubilee) to make sure that power was not the basis for society, but that capacity and hard work were the basis for society. You will note that the value of everything was measured by the time remaining to Jubilee. Jubilee is not a system that can be made to work in modern society. But we can make sure that every person has access to quality education and opportunity to excel. Quite frankly, this seems to no longer be the case in America. When I attended university my tuition, books and fees were less than $250 per semester. A month's work in the summer covered all my educational costs for a year. Today, university education starts at about $250 per semester hour, or about $4,000 per semester including books and fees. At $10 per hour one has to work 800 hours, or about 5 months full time to pay for one year of university. In other words, the average person cannot go to university and survive without loans or support in some form. The system has developed into one that only the elite can have easy access. This is a table that needs to be reset. Power and wealth should not be the determining factor for getting an education if one has capacity for learning and giving back to society. A Creative worldview society would make sure that everyone has access to education at a fair price. This resets the table every generation, allowing society to continue to develop, improve, and create. Power and influence will always be a part of the fallen world. But we can put in systems that attenuate this power. This is too big a topic for a complete review. This article is about worldviews - Creative or Animistic; and the impact these worldviews have on society. Blessings! David Watson The post certainly reflects my religious and political views. However, there is a significant difference between the theocracy of the OT and socialism – i.e. God. Your argument that infrastructure is socialistic is way off. Socialism is the redistribution of wealth, often against one’s will and with no benefit to the person whose wealth is taken. Supporting infrastructure is an integral part of government of all stripes and is about the fair payment for goods and services that make community work. Education and healthcare are certainly a part of this equation if minimum standards for everyone are established and provided, but allows for those who have the means to strive for more (if they want). You equate taxation with socialism. This can be true in some systems, but certainly not all. Monarchies tax. Dictatorships tax. Republics tax. Democracies tax. Interestingly enough, extreme socialistic systems don’t tax because the government owns everything and keeps the profit for themselves while forcing the people to live at often substandard levels of housing, income, healthcare, infrastructure, and quality of life.

The real issue here is about doing what’s right in God’s sight for those who cannot take care of themselves. One of the functions of government should be to protect the weak members of society. This is quite different than coddling the lazy members of society or saying that every member of society should be paid the same regardless of capacity, training, excellence and hard work. There are differing values for the way in which individuals support society. Not everyone has the capacity or is willing to work hard enough to become a physician, scientist, engineer, business owner and etc.

In a society that has the Creator God as a significant part of it’s worldview, everyone should be given the opportunity to develop to his or her capacity. This is for the good of the society. This is not socialism, which tends to bring everything to a common minimum. It seems to me that most socialistic systems want to make sure everyone reaches the same level of incompetence so that the elite in charge can keep what they have. The socialistic worldview is based on the view that there is limited stuff that must be kept and protected, and just enough is given out to keep people happy while the elite can enjoy their wealth of stuff.

OT law allowed for those with capacity to excel and rise up in society. But it also recognized that power would supplant ability, so every fifty years the table was reset (Year of Jubilee) to make sure that power was not the basis for society, but that capacity and hard work were the basis for society. You will note that the value of everything was measured by the time remaining to Jubilee. Jubilee is not a system that can be made to work in modern society. But we can make sure that every person has access to quality education and opportunity to excel. Quite frankly, this seems to no longer be the case in America. When I attended university my tuition, books and fees were less than $250 per semester. A month’s work in the summer covered all my educational costs for a year. Today, university education starts at about $250 per semester hour, or about $4,000 per semester including books and fees. At $10 per hour one has to work 800 hours, or about 5 months full time to pay for one year of university. In other words, the average person cannot go to university and survive without loans or support in some form. The system has developed into one that only the elite can have easy access. This is a table that needs to be reset. Power and wealth should not be the determining factor for getting an education if one has capacity for learning and giving back to society. A Creative worldview society would make sure that everyone has access to education at a fair price. This resets the table every generation, allowing society to continue to develop, improve, and create. Power and influence will always be a part of the fallen world. But we can put in systems that attenuate this power.

This is too big a topic for a complete review. This article is about worldviews – Creative or Animistic; and the impact these worldviews have on society.

Blessings!

David Watson

]]> Comment on Animism, America, Religion and Politics by Ryan http://www.davidlwatson.org/2011/11/01/animism-america-religion-and-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-4706 Ryan Sun, 06 Nov 2011 14:01:41 +0000 http://www.davidlwatson.org/?p=753#comment-4706 Unlike others, I found this post underwhelming. If, as you claim, socialistic government is tantamount to animism, then it seems to me that the Torah encourages "animism." Just read the Levitical and other accounts which doubtlessly espouse a kind of socialism (year of Jubilee; forgiveness of debt every 7 years; consistent redistributions of wealth; etc). Certainly the economics of God's Torah are not animistic!! That said, I wholeheartedly agree with you that church life in America is steeped in animistic mumbo-jumbo. I don't take issue with that point. But your political arguments reveal more about your own ideological dispositions than they do about any kind of essential link between animism and socialism. (Highways; libraries; police force; fire fighters; public education; the penal system; potable public water; and countless other systems are radically "socialistic" and also radically American. And they all depend on the redistribution of wealth, which is a fundamental feature of taxation.) Unlike others, I found this post underwhelming. If, as you claim, socialistic government is tantamount to animism, then it seems to me that the Torah encourages "animism." Just read the Levitical and other accounts which doubtlessly espouse a kind of socialism (year of Jubilee; forgiveness of debt every 7 years; consistent redistributions of wealth; etc). Certainly the economics of God's Torah are not animistic!! That said, I wholeheartedly agree with you that church life in America is steeped in animistic mumbo-jumbo. I don't take issue with that point. But your political arguments reveal more about your own ideological dispositions than they do about any kind of essential link between animism and socialism. (Highways; libraries; police force; fire fighters; public education; the penal system; potable public water; and countless other systems are radically "socialistic" and also radically American. And they all depend on the redistribution of wealth, which is a fundamental feature of taxation.)

]]> Comment on Animism, America, Religion and Politics by Val in Cape Town http://www.davidlwatson.org/2011/11/01/animism-america-religion-and-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-4701 Val in Cape Town Wed, 02 Nov 2011 21:04:53 +0000 http://www.davidlwatson.org/?p=753#comment-4701 So many chain emails are animistic in their pattern as well. I am often amazed at how many strong believers perpetuate these types of emails through their networks. While the actual content is often not the problem, it is the "promise" that something good will happen to you if you pass it on to 10 others. So many chain emails are animistic in their pattern as well. I am often amazed at how many strong believers perpetuate these types of emails through their networks. While the actual content is often not the problem, it is the "promise" that something good will happen to you if you pass it on to 10 others.

]]> Comment on Animism, America, Religion and Politics by David_Watson http://www.davidlwatson.org/2011/11/01/animism-america-religion-and-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-4700 David_Watson Wed, 02 Nov 2011 19:03:40 +0000 http://www.davidlwatson.org/?p=753#comment-4700 I don't know the ratio, either. But if our church stats are correct, more than 75% of the people who profess to be Christians never enter a church of any kind. I can't speak to their service/ministry to others, but my gut tells me it's close to zero. Our love language for God is obedience to His Word and service to His creation. I don't know the ratio, either. But if our church stats are correct, more than 75% of the people who profess to be Christians never enter a church of any kind. I can't speak to their service/ministry to others, but my gut tells me it's close to zero. Our love language for God is obedience to His Word and service to His creation.

]]> Comment on Animism, America, Religion and Politics by David http://www.davidlwatson.org/2011/11/01/animism-america-religion-and-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-4699 David Wed, 02 Nov 2011 18:35:56 +0000 http://www.davidlwatson.org/?p=753#comment-4699 That is an astute analysis of both our political and spiritual climate. Very well put. The church in America is vulnerable to this animistic influence because of the lack of obedience based discipleship in our approach to evangelism, I think. That is an astute analysis of both our political and spiritual climate. Very well put. The church in America is vulnerable to this animistic influence because of the lack of obedience based discipleship in our approach to evangelism, I think.

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